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xXIvIercenaryXx

Server Restarts & Dino Wipes

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Alright, i know the word around is "the server only restarts on updates" and "restarts cause issues" as well as "just kill dinos to get them to spawn"   well i personally have spend the last 2 days killing things, to attempt to get spinos to spawn, and nothing, 2 days, over 200k hide worth of stuff dead......theres an overspawn of a ton of different dinos and killing them isnt solving the issue....ive talked to several other players in the community, both staff and players, and all seem to agree that there needs to be daily restarts and dino wipes......i logged onto the server this morning to immense lag, not on my end either, and it wasnt just the world save......3 other individuals experienced it as well...


what i am proposing:

restarts every 12 hours with a dino wipe once per week. from past experience with recent ark servers and hosting servers of my own in the recent past, this is the safest and best course of action...

 

 

i would like to continue playing, but with the most recent update requiring certain apex dino "trophies" the bosses cannot be fought simply because those dinos dont spawn.

Edited by xXIvIercenaryXx

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As long time ark player i approve of this idea! However if you too much hurry about the dino wipe server crashing! My advice woukld be for you to do it right after a server restart, and at least 1 per week! But the restart at least 1 per day!

Dinos wipe are really need to keep the spawn balance! And yes i felt tons of lagg today aswell!

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I think its time to listen to what people want on the server. i support this idea 100% as ark has not optimized the dino spawning system. also no bugs are occurring with dino wipes so i dont know why this idea has been shutdown instantly. plus with the new addition of boss items we need to have this because ex. spinos are rare and should not even be. its time to listen to your people.

As for restarts there is a comforting feeling about them that people like, whether or not it helps. Tested this and no bugs are occurring with restarts and saves. lets get restarts going!

one more thing i have noticed that staff in ARK will encounter a bug and think that bug is never fixed, over time this has built up and its time for you all to let it go and TEST if they are still a thing dont tell people "we cant" or you cant" its not productive and kinda lazy.

-SLIM

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I believe this idea is a great one. I have played on servers in the past that used this sort of a system. Those servers worked fine and rarely did problems arise. No matter where we seem to go we can't find the dinos necessary in order to try and fight bosses. People who join the server now are at a disadvantage as dinos that spawned frequently in the beginning stages of the server have now had their spawns taken by hundreds of fish spawns which are completely unnecessary. Another solution to solve the issues of dino wipes is to just throttle the fish spawns. If it is too risky to do dino wipes in fear for the server crashing and getting messed up then just rid the server of the cause of the issues altogether. I, as a long time player of Ark and a player with a hefty bit of time playing with ADK, do very much hope you guys in the staff really look into this and take it into consideration. Every other time we have tried to bring it up you guys get defensive about it saying it causes issues. What do you expect from an early access game? If you guys look into it now and actually consider our concerns then even if you don't do what we ask I will respect your decision.

~F1ery working towards his forum posts to become a full member of ADK

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there are litterally only two spawn points for spinos on this map and they are listed as a lower priority than other Dino's of its size. This is the will of the developer of the map. It's the way the map is made, just like how ovis are nearly extinct on the center and the island, they are plentiful on ragnarok by design.

If you have done the research as to where the spinos on the map are, and killed as many Dino's in the area as you say you have and they haven't spawned, chances are they are just not going to spawn, not even with a Dino wipe. 

Have you looked at the developer notes for the map recently? The spawn counts right now are disproportionate and too low for the maps size, noted by the maps developer. There are hundreds maybe a thousand Dino's that are currently spawning over in the barricaded scorched section that are also taking up spawn counts for Dino's so much so that the oceans are even largely barren compared to how they should be. With the next update they are changing the max dino spawns to 25,000 Dino's where if my memory serves me right it is currently set somewhere around 12 or 13. They are also putting a hold on the spawn of Dino's in the scorched section until it's release to solve a lot of the dino spawn problems that they have identified in the current version. We as staff seem to say this every day, and even some of you are echoing it in your posts. This game is not on release, this is alpha, there will be bugs, there will be problems. This map is NOT finished, they are still adjusting spawns fixing issues, almost 50% of the map isn't even playable yet, there will be problems, there will be bugs! We as server admin can not go tweaking and changing the server spawn rates and hindering other peoples play time for this reason, these fixes are set to be very soon.

The problem with automated server restarts and dino wipes is that it restricts players when they play and when they are safe to tame. 12 hours is an awfully short amount of time and there are almost always people on the server as we have people playing at all different times of day and night. The only reason that a server reset is useful is that there are updates to be done, server changes that need to be done, or if the server is getting bogged down from running for a long period of time, which does not happen on our servers in the current time between updates.  Dino wipes kill unfinished tames, that's a fact. Also more recently, a Dino wipe has killed baby wyvrens.  We don't say these things for no reason and we have test servers that we do look at these things on from time to time. All of the ark staff, but even more so turbo and frogy spend more hours worrying about, and testing these things then they do actually playing and enjoying the game, calling us lazy when you don't know what goes on behind closed doors is a little ignorant. 

The great thing about all of this is that we have a solution! We are very lucky to have the hived servers for every official map. You can complete the boss fights to unlock the engrams on the island. This is probably even safer than doing it on ragnarok currently as it has been tested and is stable compared to a few groups that have already noted the loss of their gear in its entirety when they die During a boss fight on ragnarok. There are plentiful spino spawn points on the island and no matter how many dino wipes we do you will likely still only see one in a blue moon so this is currently the best option. You can unlock your engrams on the island and farm gamma bosses for element on any server. 

All of this being said, ARK staff are watching the development of the map very closely and we are constantly considering these things, what we tell you in the servers every day you ask is the current decision and we will likely not change it until the map is actually finished and fully released. We have a feeling that the spawn of spinos will be solved in the version release they are saying is early July. Please just be patient for the time being or unlock your engrams on the island. 

Edited by FeistyTV

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If there is a known schedule for restarts and dino wipes, people have no room to complain, and sorry to burst your bubble, but several people, including myself, experienced massive lag earlier today......some of which posted here....

a restart is generally a <5 minute timeframe, if someone cant stop playing for a total of 10 minutes a day, then they should most likely re-evaluate their life choices...'

the problem with telling people to go to another map currently is fine, however, when the creatures dont spawn on those maps either, it will take weeks to get enough spino sails.....10 for beta 25 for alpha....and thats just broodmother..... i am perfectly fine with going to the center or the island, but i flew around both maps, in the last 24 hours and found 1 spino, on the center.....and since these items cannot be transfered from one map to another, this cripples the gathering of said item...

to me, the response seems like a cop-out, as slim stated, issues from the past have been fixed, and fear is preventing this server from moving forward....

I am not alone in this feeling, even some staff agree.....

Yes the game is in development, but that doesnt mean the tools provided, by the game developers to remedy these problems should not be used...

 

 

also here are the official spawn points of spinos on Ragnarok
http://screencloud.net/v/hxgEy

 

Edited by xXIvIercenaryXx

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The server will be updated and reset as is necessary. It is not that people cant stop playing for 10 minutes, the problem is restarts can and will reset tames and other breeding times and maturation times. The staff is working very hard to ensure that everything is running smoothly on the servers, and we are listening to your concerns. We don't change things lightly on our servers due to issues we have run into in the past.  If you have a positive suggestion please feel free to suggest to the developer TurboTechie or one of the admins who will bring it up to the rest of the chain. The other option we have is to just take ragnorak down untill it is more complete and stable, and I don't want to see that as it is fun and has potential.  Please be patient with us as we are doing the best we can.

-Nim

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or use the tools the devs provided.....taking a server down instead of restarting it is like cutting your face off to spite your nose.......

not to mention, my post was clearly not read.....i stated the issue persists across all the servers that spinos spawn on.....not just ragnarok, do you plan on shutting them down as well?

Edited by xXIvIercenaryXx

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If you will notice, there are only 2 separate points on that map like i stated. 8 possible spawn points for one, two limited areas for the other. It would make very little sense for us not to wait to see if the update that is expected in DAYS will not solve the problem before we go changing the entire way the server is run. 

In terms of the "massive lag" you experienced this morning, aside from the servers world saving every 20 mins the server has generally been lag free. Lag can be caused by players gathering with larger dinos, or gathering stone or rock on ankys or doeds, this is NOT server lag, it is lag caused by the game, no amount of server restarts can fix this. Lag can also be caused by porting large amounts of dinosaurs in and out of the arena, or through teleporters. 

More often than not, the lag that can be solved by frequently restarting a server is lag caused by memory usage peaking on a server, the server being bogged down by addons and other running processes. Turbo is an excellent server dev. and he keeps a very close eye on these things, often checking the functionality of the server from remote means throughout the day as well. If our servers were going to have this kind of lag, it would happen during prime times when we often have 10+ people on a single server, if it doesn't happen there then its not likely to happen in the early morning when you and 2 or 3 of your friends are online, which is why I suggested that the lag may have be caused by something else, or perhaps just have been some other kind of anomaly caused by our provider (we are happy with them, but no provider is perfect). Up until this point, and these servers have been up for a LONG time, we have never had a reason to have scheduled restarts, and we have never experienced the constant lag that is caused by the server requiring a restart. 

Like I said above, also echod by nim the ARK staff are constantly considering all of these things. We have had conversations about scheduled restarts and dino wipes in the last few days. I'm sorry that you feel like everything I say is a cop out, but at this point it kind of feels like anything that we say that is not in line with what you want will be a cop out. We are talking about these things, and we do want to wait and see what happens with the development of the map before we go changing everything server side, this is part of the problem in choosing to play a map that is in development. For the most part people are happy with the map, aside from the boss fighting aspect. The server will not be removed simply because you are having issues gathering materials for alpha fights when a solution has already been given to you.

The admins that you are saying agree with you are also admins who apparently are not taking part in the conversations we are having, or if they are, are not voicing their opinions to the other staff to be taken into consideration, you can't just say they agree with you, if they have an opinion on something and want their opinion heard, they know who to talk to.

----- Also worth noting that I have been on the island for an hour, ran through all of the rivers on a rex, killing everything, there were no spinos initially but after a return trip saw three within the areas I had attempted to clear. I can imagine what I accomplished in an hour (while afking to tend to a very sick birdy, stopping for 5 mins to wait out the fog/night in the game and the time taken to also keep up with notifications on these forums and pings in discord) you and your friends can accomplish in a fraction of the time if you were to split up and do the same. If you choose to log into the island fly around the map, see that there are no spinos, and transfer off expecting different results when you come back, then you will never accomplish what you desire. To a certain extent this game is a time sink, and you are not intended to be able to have the items you gather in a day or two. The progression of our servers is already accelerated many times over that of the ARK official servers, and progression to TEK on those servers takes months and months. It really is unfortunate that the game developers have changed the requirements to the boss fights to be so hard to obtain, but I'm sure they did it full knowing how difficult they would be to obtain. The idea behind these changes I can assume would be to keep players engaged longer, working towards a goal. 

Since you seem to think that we dont actually continue to test this kind of thing, after that hour I went ahead and got approval to do a dino wipe on the island to test this what you say it no longer causes the issues it used to. I completed the dino wipe, was crashed out of the server, only to join and be crashed out 2 more times before I could connect and stay connected. Upon the server now being stable again, I quickly flew around the map only to find a single spino spawn, which i left alive while i did 2 rounds of the rivers to confirm. I then went back with my rex, killed the spino and began clearing more dinos up and down the main river, after returning after my first clear I found another spino on either ends of the main river that flow past the central volcano. It appears that all you really need to accomplish what you want, is to put a little more time and effort into making it happen. I am willing to bet that if you were to go over there right now that you would reap the benefits of the limited work i just put in to accomplish what it is you are saying is not possible. Other than flying around after the dino wipe to check the rivers twice, all of this was completed WITHOUT the use of my tek equipment meaning that you should have no problems reproducing my results. 

20170703155035_1.thumb.jpg.fff80e223a7235657f7beca60a4f06d8.jpg

Edited by FeistyTV

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its honestly sad that your ALL not listening to what your players want, if that's what THEY want even after you have explained your side then its not about you its about them.

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20 minutes ago, SLIMJIM said:

its honestly sad that your ALL not listening to what your players want, if that's what THEY want even after you have explained your side then its not about you its about them.

This is not a matter of what we want VS what you want, its a matter of server stability on a map that is not yet completed and that has already had all of the issues that you are trying to solve documented and set to be fixed in the next update. I have literally just spent an hour and a half proving and testing the fact that what you are asking for will not solve your problem, what will solve your problem is spending the time and effort to clear out the dinosaurs and farming for spinos. You think that we are not listening, but we are. I literally just dedicated my entire afternoon to testing and killing dinosaurs and wiping dinos, causing server instability, to show you how serious we actually take the things you say.  Your immediate response that completely ignores everything I just posted clearly states that you are not only not listening to what we have to say, but just don't care what we have to say. 

You need the server to be restart right now? You cannot wait for an update that likely will solve all of your problems that is happening within days? Even if we dino wiped right now the chances of a spino spawning are very slim to none because these problems are within the map spawns and dino allotments built into the map, we would be back to square one until the next dino wipe where you would still have a slim to none chance of a spino spawning. You have a better chance of spawning a spino killing the dinos in the area.

I literally just left the island with three spinos alive, that I put the effort into spawning. 

Please just wait until the Ragnarok update, everything the developer has posted has lead us to believe that these problems WILL BE FIXED. I personally will be pushing to have a dino wipe done AFTER this update is pushed, and the other admins should want to as well, as this is the kind of update that actually merits one. They are removing spawns in unplayable areas and adjusting a lot of levels within the playable section. PLEASE just be patient.

Edited by FeistyTV

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ive literally heard 4 different answers as to why these dont happen, and they ALL have to do with OLD versions of the game. If backups are set-up properly, there would be no more than a 2 hour roll back....
as for the crashing after a dino wipe, when you let the spawns get that out of control (another reason the devs added this feature) it can cause issues like that.....and 1 time a week isn't bad.....it resets the spawns....why is this such a bad thing?

Modded servers have issues with memory, you can say this one doesnt all you want, but its an issue within ark, this place is no different. Mod's can become unstable causing lag, and just because you dont see it, doesnt mean it isnt happening.....you have said, what works for one, might not work for the next......as slim stated, not only does it give a peace of mind, it may actually help.....

Players have spoken, staff have spoken, and im sure more players once they get on will speak up too......denying your players a simple request is a terrible idea, its not like we are asking for a gamebreaking mod.....a simple 12 hour restart, and a 1 week dino wipe....

 

you all seem to be stuck on ragnarok being the sole issue.....its not.....its every single map......these issues span across the hive.....
stop hiding behind the pre-release shield......you have 37 days left to use that excuse.

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1 minute ago, xXIvIercenaryXx said:

ive literally heard 4 different answers as to why these dont happen, and they ALL have to do with OLD versions of the game. If backups are set-up properly, there would be no more than a 2 hour roll back....
as for the crashing after a dino wipe, when you let the spawns get that out of control (another reason the devs added this feature) it can cause issues like that.....and 1 time a week isn't bad.....it resets the spawns....why is this such a bad thing?

Modded servers have issues with memory, you can say this one doesnt all you want, but its an issue within ark, this place is no different. Mod's can become unstable causing lag, and just because you dont see it, doesnt mean it isnt happening.....you have said, what works for one, might not work for the next......as slim stated, not only does it give a peace of mind, it may actually help.....

Players have spoken, staff have spoken, and im sure more players once they get on will speak up too......denying your players a simple request is a terrible idea, its not like we are asking for a gamebreaking mod.....a simple 12 hour restart, and a 1 week dino wipe....

 

you all seem to be stuck on ragnarok being the sole issue.....its not.....its every single map......these issues span across the hive.....
stop hiding behind the pre-release shield......you have 37 days left to use that excuse.

Again you ignore the fact that I was able to go over to the island and spawn these dinos doing what we have told you to do for days. You cant say were hiding behind a shield when the documentations of the changed coming are right in front of your face. When the developer of the map is saying there are the issues with the map currently the spawns are not right and there is an update coming to fix them... that's not hiding, that's just using our brains to say hey they know this is a problem, they are going to fix it. 

The what works for one person doesn't work for another is directly related to how steam pings the servers. That has nothing to do with playing inside our servers, you can try and put words in my mouth all you want, but if you would actually take a second to step back and listen to what we are saying you would know that we are taking care of this, we just aren't going for the quick fix that you want that will cause more issues down the line. I can tell your right now that if we ever decided to do automatic restarts on the server, they would definitely not be every 12 hours. They would likely be every other day, at the very most once a day. Again these are already things that we have talked about, you just need to wait. 

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You think this is only about Ragnarok, you think its only about spinos, your wrong. this is about dinos as a whole, The island, The Center, and Ragnarok. and your players dont want to go around and kill everything just for new spawns cause its impossible to even kill everything effectively. Stop using the excuse that "it happened in the past" or "its not our problem". cause if its not your problem then you need to give players a temp fix, as they want.

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Never has it ever been said that it is not our problem. We are literally already talking and working through these issues like i have said more than a few times now. 

 

At this point anything else said in this thread before more information is available, is pointless and gearing more towards arguing than trying to be productive. I am going to leave this alone for now, and full knowing that the admins are already talking about everything that you have stated, and you have been given a temporary solution until we actually are able to come up with a workable solution, i suggest you step away from this for a while too, nothing can and will be done right this very second.

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1 minute ago, xXIvIercenaryXx said:

a better, more effective "temporary solution" would be a dino wipe....since, killing things will force them to spawn in the SE section of the map....

 

there are already spawns out in the SE seciton of the map, this is now how the spawning of dinos works. There is a population of dinos allotted for the map as a whole as well as within regions of the map. At any given time the maximum amount of dinos spawned is max. When a player starts killing dinosaurs in a specific area, spawns are queued to replace those dinosaurs in that area, not in other areas of the map. Killing dinosaurs in the swamp will result in dinosaurs re-spawning in the swap once you have left the area for a relative amount of time. If killing dinosaurs in the swamp caused dinos to spawn in other areas of the map, then once you killed dinosaurs in an area, it would remain empty forever until you went and killed dinosaurs in another area, again this is not how the spawning of dinosaurs works. 

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I am locking this thread. The point is that we have heard your concerns, I was talking about taking down ragnarok due to the instability of the map spawns at the moment. I have been here for over a year and a half and I have seen many of these issues before. Our servers are literally unique. No one else runs their servers the way do, and we take the time to test and troubleshoot the issues we see. We have a literally unique file system and read/write access system for the hived servers. While we will certainly take your desires into account, but we take care of our servers and the long term stability. Automatic updates will most likely never occur. While our new server manager is very powerful and allows the admins more power than ever before, it cannot do everything. We are not pointing out OLD issues, the are  issues we have seen ourselves and recently. You say a two hour rollback is no big deal. The last time we had a two hour rollback we spent HOURS fixing things that had be lost.

TLDR  - we care and are listening, answers will be forthcoming

-Nim

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